for airing opinions and hopefully finding truths..
Read this and pass it on. Think about it. See what it says. Lunatic NATO gone fully aggressive plans for decades of war even unto nuclear apocalypse.
Don’t you want to do something about that? At least tell as many people as you can?
Or it’s fine with you?
https://scheerpost.com/2024/07/17/patrick-lawrence-brain-dead-and-dangerous-nato-proceeds/
The Donbas States have every right to self determination.
China means Australia no harm.
The USA means harm to everyone.
I keep banging on about this theme. But you have to. What’s not front and centre these days quickly gets forgotten. A new ice cream flavour hits the streets and catches everyone’s attention.
Some film star has an abortion or a bowel movement and catches everyone’s attention.
So I do it again. Bring it up again. Ukraine. And ‘Victory’. Fashionable nowadays to lament the vanishing possibility of a ‘Ukrainian victory’ and a prediction that the USA and NATO will continue the fight until there is such a victory even if it means decades of war and even if it means nuclear weapons.
The kind of lunacy we have become accustomed to. Emanates from cloud cuckoo land: the USA.
I view Mr Daniel Davis – who is actually a retired Lt Col in the American forces – pretty regularly on his ‘Deep Dive’ Youtube channel because he is a sensible, honest and true thinking man.
And I today viewed one of his videos. This one: NATO SUMMIT: European Split on Ukraine Russia War Grows
And I was struck again by the sad loose language he uses as does everyone else. They cannot think straight while they use language like that. So I made a comment putting my point of view and here it is. I have a readership of maybe three or four people by choice and a handful more who run into the blog by accident of googling or something.
Not very much. But my hope is that maybe one of those few will pass it on and maybe it will take root and start spreading out from there somewhere. I hope. That’s my hope.
Here is the comment:
With all due respect Mr Davis is using wrong terminology and it confuses and hides the issue.
It is the MSM and NATO and USA terminology, of course. And it is WRONG. It completely hides the truth. The truth about what ‘Ukraine winning’ means.
The truth about what it is. What it would be.
Listen, it is simple. First you have to make up your mind: is a nation the people or is the land or is it the government?
It is not the government. Governments come and go, rise and fall, and they issue from the people.
And it is not the land. Find unoccupied land and we say there is no nation there.
It is the people. Right? Right. Well now: when does ‘Ukraine the people’ win?
Simple: when they stop dying and being maimed, crippled, tormented, tortured, deprived of everything.
See? It really is as simple as that.
When the war stops Ukraine (the people) wins WINS.
Just like that. Because the people win. Just like that. Because they stop dying.
THAT’s when ‘Ukraine wins’ and that’s the ONLY time ‘Ukraine wins’.
See?
What “they” the lunatic manipulators, promotors of this war and all the deadhead unthinking commentator are talking about is NOT ‘when Ukraine wins’. It is when ‘The Kiev regime wins’. That’s what they really mean.
And, of course, the regime’s master: the USA regime.
Can you see? I know. It is hard to see straight. They have twisted and distorted for so long.
You probably can’t keep the thought out of your head that ‘Ukraine’ has lost if ‘it’ (that same ‘Ukraine’, currently ill defined in your mind) has ‘lost’ the Donbas States.
But just slow down. Think again. Who has lost what? Have the Ukrainian people ‘lost’ the Donbas lands?
No. No way. They are still occupied by the Ukrainian people who had them before ’22. A man who owned property there before owns it now, unless he got killed by USA prompted shelling.
A man with home and property, business, work, in Donbas still has it. He even still has his same government. He has the same local govt. and he has the same State Govt: the DPR, say, in Donetsk.
Just his govt – his, his own – has elected to Federate with the Russian Federation.
But it all still exists. Nothing has been robbed, stolen, removed, destroyed, vanished.
The Ukrainian people still have what they have before.
Who has ‘lost’ the Donbas States? Nobody. Nobody that ever owned them.
But the ruling junta of lunatic thieves they have lost the right to despoil, plunder and torment those States.
That is what has been ‘lost’. The ‘right’ of evil to exercise its will across a people and a land.
And ‘Ukraine’, the rightful ‘Ukraine’, the Ukraine that is the people, it PROFITS from that.
The world needs to see things clearly. And that ought to be clear enough.
It is very sad that Daniel Davis does not use the correct language and say ‘Kiev regime’ when that’s what he’s referring to.
It is very sad that he does not always take pains to promulgate this core message with every video: that the Ukrainian people (and hence ‘Ukraine’) WINS the minute the killing stops.
It is very sad.
It is so sad especially because NO ONE is doing it.
Macgregor does not do. All of Judge Napolitano’s large stable of excellent guests: they do not do it. MoA does not do it. Even John Helmer, probably the best of all commenters on this fiasco, even he does not do it.
Even the Russian govt and Putin, they do not do it (and I had high hopes for them), Nobody does it.
Hence nobody is speaking for Ukrainians. No one is supporting Ukrainians. No one is trying to get victory for them. They have no help, not from anywhere. Just posturings and mouthings everywhere the vilest, the filthiest of them all being, of course from the USA and its NATO lackeys.
Who are persisting in the methodical extermination of the Ukrainians while piously claiming to be ‘supporting’ them.
What total lunacy is this? I don’t know. It staggers me.
Not even the Ukrainian people say this is the way it is. That Victory for them is cessation of the killing. Even they do not say it. Or rather, it doesn’t get reported to us that they say it.
I am damn sure that 90% of all the old men and women, the mothers of the dead and crippled, etc. etc. know damn well that what they desire most of all is an end to the killing.
But it never gets reported.
The Ukrainians are magnificent people. As in fact, of course, just about all the people of the world are, the ‘ordinary’ people. But by god they don’t seem very clever. If they don’t see this simple truth and share it with each other, both sides of the line, and unite and throw the Americans out of Europe and claim their own victory.
Prof Jeffrey Sachs posted a Youtube video about American meddling in Ukraine
(Save Ukraine From American Meddling | Jeffrey Sachs, June 27, 2024 Neutrality Studies )
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3aa12ISDXY&lc=UgwHqT0dbJgcd4ncZnN4AaABAg.A5LlQpXfiqzA5TUVJgPBvj )
and I found it to be excellent and posted an enthusiastic comment that I was pleased to see it and could use it in the future to inform people and found it accurate and comprehensive.
An onlooker posted a reply to me that I was all wrong. Saying it was ‘Far from accurate and far from comprehensive’.
We exchanged a couple more emails and finally he (joe_ninety_one_5076) posted his itemised critique of Sachs video and I looked at it and found it unconvincing.
Because my response was too big Youtube would not let me post it. So I am posting it here and I’ll simply post a link to this on Youtube.
Here it is. It includes the transcript of Sach’s video:
@joe_ninety_one_5076
Well I am disappointed. The whole question here is American meddling in ‘Ukraine’. Subsumed beneath that is the corollary: the damage it has done is doing and will do to ‘Ukraine’. Meaning today of course, in popular common use, even official use: ‘Kiev Ukraine’, the American owned puppet.
But which we can more properly see as the ‘original’ ‘Ukraine’ of some 40 million people that has been irrevocable smashed forever by US meddling.
Smashed though it is we can still use the notion, the idea, of the overall landmass and its peoples and contemplate how it suffers, has suffered and will suffer.
It is up to the onlooker I guess, to see the word ‘Ukraine’ as meaning whichever he chooses.
For me it is very noticeable that all the warmongers and most vociferous supporters of ‘Ukraine’ do not mean the ‘whole’ as was and nor to they even mean the ‘Kiev Ukrainians’, the people who remain there, who still are.
We see this because they happily watch 500,000 of their own die in the course of this attempt to subjugate their own brothers. Vivid example.
But even more vivid, more lurid is their battle cry: ‘To the last man’. Pray tell how does it profit a people if they all die?
It does not. It is sheer abject lunacy to imagine that it does. Unless we histrionically postulate some other fate ‘worse than death’ – perpetual slavery beneath Roman legions or Attila the Hun or Ghenghis Khan or the American South slave owners perhaps.
There is no such histrionic fate worse than death facing anyone in Ukraine.
No. It makes sense only in one way: If all the people die but the regime, the rulers, live on THEN you/they could claim ‘victory’. But as I say, that is a victory not for the people. It is a victory that takes no account of the people whatever.
I just wanted to establish that fact. It is a sore point with me. I am disgusted at the way all the media perpetuate this loose language that masks genocide in fact.
Right. Now back the topic. The question is of American meddling. If you disagree with Sach’s video you disagree with his contention that American meddling brought this about and maintains it. A seemingly impossible position to take in light of all we see sand know but that’s what awakened my interest. Can such a position be supported? What new evidence, details, understandings are there?
You come up with these:
My take goes something like this:
Overall I totally fail to see how you have demonstrated that the USA has not and does not and will not interfere with Ukrainian (either ‘the regime’, or the ‘kiev ukrainians’, or the ‘donbas ukrainians’, or the ‘whole thing as was’) politics and wellbeing to their detriment. Clearly not the faintest whisper of anything relevant to the deaths of 500,000 mean in the process of trying to subjugate their brothers.
But then, Sachs doesn’t say much about this, either. But what Sachs does say is potent and true I believe and I think perhaps you need reminding of it and perhaps many people need reminding of it. I do not much agree with today’s modus operandi: i.e. the video. For I believe we gain fleeting impressions and act upon them. Text takes a little more effort and perhaps is not so appealing but it is much more reliable and useful.
Save Ukraine from American meddling the hill June 27
2024 Ukraine can only be saved at the negotiating table not on the battlefield sadly this point is not understood by Ukrainian politicians such as Oleg Dunda a member of Ukraine’s Parliament who recently wrote an oped on this site against my repeated call for negotiations
Dunda believes that the United States will save Ukraine from Russia the opposite is true Ukraine actually needs to be saved from the United States
Ukraine epitomizes Henry Kissinger’s famous aphorism quote it may be dangerous to be America’s enemy but to be America’s friend is fatal unquote
30 years ago Ukraine was embraced by American neoconservatives who believed that it was the perfect instrument for weakening Russia the neocons are the ideal ological Believers in American hegemony
that is the right and responsibility of the United States to be the world’s sole superpower and Global policemen as described for example in the project for a new American centuries 2000 report rebuilding America’s defenses
The neocons choose three methods to push US power and influence into Ukraine
First meddle in Ukraine’s internal politics second expand NATO to Ukraine despite Russia’s red line and third arm Ukraine and apply economic sanctions to defeat Russia
The neocons whispered a sweet fantasy into Ukraine’s ear back in the 1990s “Come with us into the Glorious Paradise of NATO land and you’ll be safe Ever After.” “
pro-european Ukrainian politicians especially in Western Ukraine loved the story they believed that Ukraine would join NATO just as Poland Hungary and the Czech Republic had in 1999
The idea of expanding NATO to Ukraine was fatuous and dangerous.
From Russia’s perspective the NATO expansion into Central Europe in 1999 was deeply objectionable and a stark violation of the solemn us promise that NATO would not expand quote 1 in Eastward end quote.
But it was not deadly to Russia’s interests those countries do not border the Russian Mainland NATO
Enlargement to Ukraine however would mean the loss of Russia’s Black Sea naval fleet at Sevastopel and the prospect of us missiles minutes from the Russian Mainland
There was in fact no prospect that Russia would ever accept NATO enlargement to Ukraine
The current CIA director William Burns said as much in a memo to Secretary of State Condalisa Rice when he was US ambassador to Moscow in 2008 the memo was famously entitled nyet means nyet
Burns wrote quote Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all red lines for the Russian Elite not just Putin. In more than 2 and A2 years of conversations with key Russian players from knuckle draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin’s sharpest liberal critics I (that is: Burns) have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine and NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russia’s interests end quote
The neoconservatives never described this Russian red line to the American or Global public then or now.
Senior diplomats and Scholars in the United States had reached the same conclusion about NATO enlargement more generally in the 1990s as has been recently documented in detail
Ukrainians and their supporters insist that Ukraine has quote the right end quote to join NATO. The US also says so repeatedly. NATO’s policy says that NATO enlargement is an issue between NATO and the candidate country and that it is no business of Russia or any other non NATO country. This is preposterous.
I’ll start to believe that claim when Admiral John Kirby declares from the White House Podium that Mexico has the quote right to invite China and Russia to put military bases along the Rio Grande based on the same quote open door policy as NATO.
The Monroe Doctrine has said just the opposite for two centuries.
So Ukraine was set up for Disaster by the neocons actually the Ukrainian public sensed the truth and overwhelmingly opposed NATO membership until the 2014 Uprising that overthrew Ukrainian president Victor Yanukovich
Let’s retrace the chronology of this shockingly misguided American policy.
In the early 2000s the US began to meddle intensively in Ukraine’s Politics.
The US spent billions of dollars according to Victoria Nuland to build Ukraine’s quote democracy. Meaning to turn Ukraine to the United States and away from Russia even
so the Ukrainian public remained strongly against NATO membership and elected Victor Yanukovich who championed Ukrainian neutrality in 2010.
In February 2014 the Obama team actively sided with Neo-Nazi paramilitaries which stormed government buildings on February 21st and overthrew Yanukovich.
The next day cloaked as a quote revolution of dignity the us immediately recognized the new government. The astounding intercepted call between newand and US ambassador to Ukraine Jeffrey Pat where they talk about who should be in the new Ukrainian government several weeks before the Rebellion demonstrates the level of American involvement.
The post-uprising government in Ukraine was filled with Russia haters and was backed by extremist right-wing paramilitaries like the Azov Brigade.
When the ethnically Russian donbas region broke away from the uprising the central government aimed to retake the region by force.
A peace agreement was reached between keev and the donbas in 2015 known as Minsk 2 that would end the fighting by extending autonomy to the ethnically Russian regions of Donetsk and lugansk.
Alas Ukraine and the US undermined the treaty even while publicly endorsing it. The treaty was a mere temporizing measure according to German Chancellor Angela Merkel to give Ukraine time to build its Army.
The US shipped armaments to Ukraine to build up its military make it interoperable with NATO and support the retaking of the Donbas by force.
The next diplomatic opportunity to save Ukraine came in December 2021 When Vladimir Putin proposed a US Russia treaty on security guarantees calling for an end to Nato enlargement among other issues including the urgent question of US missile placements near Russia.
Instead of negotiating Biden again flatly said no to Putin on the question of ending NATO enlargement.
Yet another diplomatic opportunity to save Ukraine arose in March 2022 just days after the start of Russia’s special military operation launched on February 24.
Russia said that it would stop the war if Ukraine would agree to neutrality. Zelinsky agreed, documents were exchanged and a peace deal was nearly reached yet according to former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett the Us and other NATO allies notably the UK stepped in to block the agreement telling Ukraine to fight on.
Recently Boris Johnson said that Ukraine should keep fighting to preserve quote Western hegemony end quote.
Ukraine can still be saved through neutrality even as hundreds of thousands of lives have been squandered by the failure to negotiate.
The rest of the issues including boundaries can also be resolved through diplomacy.
The Killing can end now before more disasters befall Ukraine and the World.
As for the United States 30 years of neoconservative misrule is long enough
End.
Actually I overlooked the fact that there is a link to the text at thehill.com which would be a better place to see it. I will leave all this here out of laziness and because it has my comments in it.
But here is the ‘official’ text: https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4741597-save-ukraine-from-american-meddling/