I call it ‘Kiev Ukraine’ to distinguish it from the greater Ukraine which incorporates DPR and LPR for instance.
‘Breakaway’ Republics they brokeaway because they could not tolerate the Kieve administration and the Minsk accords afforded them autonomy as Republics WITHIN a Ukraine Federation.
They sought to be PART of Ukraine. But Kiev Ukraine would not and will not have it. Kiev Ukraine is a power hungry monster such as the people of the world have known since time immemorial. They do not consider the welfare of their people, they consider only expanding their power over as many people as possible.
That’s, for instance, China today.
It is a commonplace.
So we have two: ‘Kiev Ukraine’ and the ‘wider Ukraine’ which would include all people notionally Ukrainian and who wish to live in peace with each other.
Here is part of the story. A very illuminating little video, telling it as it is:
‘Ukraine’ – i.e. the Zelensky/CIA part of it – is losing 20,000 dead per month.
20,000. I live in a town of 20,000. That’s like my whole town being wiped out each month.
Got to say: For what?
Well it is all so that at the end of it they (Zelensky/CIA) will be able to bomb into submission the DPR and LPR.
That’s all it is about.
They want to annihilate the DPR and LPR. So Russia stepped in to help them.
Let it end the way Zlenenski/CIA want it to end and what happens? The annihilate DPR/LPR – and probably Crimea, too, for good measure.
Now here’s the thing: the vast majority of ordinary Ukrainians couldn’t give a damn about annihilating anyone. They just want to live in peace.
AND even those amongst them who DO want to annihilate, are full of festering hate, they’ll get nothing out of this. NOTHING. They may get a chance to go down there to the southeast and actually get a gun and kill someone if that makes them happy.
Get in the army and shell some cvilians, if that makes them happy, as it has done for 8 years.
But that’s all they’ll get. In real terms, honest human terms, not terms of bloodthirsty hate, they’ll get nothing.
The govt and crooks will do all the ‘getting’. They are the ones who will profit. Not the people. Not any of the people. Not the good, not the bad, not on this side, not on that side.
This whole thing is a people destroying work of insanity.
From Ukrainians. Comments from a Youtube post. Interesting I thought. So I’ve put them here:
comment from this youtube thing.
Little bit hard to read because Enrique ‘disguises’ his words by sustituting numbers.
Enrique Hidalgo
7 hours ago
About Ukraine: nation created in Lenin’s time (not to be confused with the history of the city of Kiev and/or with Kievan Rus & its Rurik dynasty started by Prince Rurik of Novgorod; Novgorod is an ancient Russian city), but only theoretical/administrative terms, since it remained under Russian control in the Soviet era, the conformation of its territory today consists mainly of territories that have historically belonged to the Russians (from the center to the eastern and southern side) and the western side has historically belonged to Poland.
Important issue about Poland: the h4tred of the Poles towards the Russians is immense and it is they who have partly influenced the western part of Ukraine, this h4tred is historical, since Poland and Russia have had multiple w4rs for several centuries, even the Poles invaded Moscow at some point and were driven out by the Russians (look for the monument to Minin and Pozharsky in Moscow’s Red Square). Now if you add this historical h4tred towards Russia with Neo-Naz1 elements (in western Ukraine) that by default relate Russia to the greatest enemy of the Naz1s, that is, the Soviets, who ended up destroying their beloved H1tler, you will have a gigantic anti-Russian national1sm, which the United States has been able to use as a geopolit1cal tool against the Russ1ans.
On the current crisis: The people of Donbass are ethnic Russians and they did not support the 2014 coup, as those who took control of Kiev (with US backing) are openly xenophob1c against the Russians, they even banned the Russian language in Ukraine, which is the native language of the people living in Donbass. Ethnic Russians have lived in Donbass for several centuries, so at the moment they are defending their families and the lands where they have lived for many generations. People living in Donbass voted in a referendum to gain more autonomy and stay inside Ukraine, the latter being important as it shows that the Western narrative that the Donbass conflict was started by “pro-Russian separat1sts” is not is so true and this was part of the typical western pr0paganda to confuse the world about reality and adapt everything to the western narrative of “it’s Russia’s fault”, I repeat “the people of Donbass did not vote for independence from Ukraine and/or to join Russia, they voted to have more autonomy within Ukraine”, in fact this is the basis of the famous Minsk agreements that Kiev and the West refuse to implement (accusing Russia of not complying with them, when Russia does not has obligations in the agreement), and it has to be repeated that the people of Donbass wanted this because they simply never accepted the 2014 coup, which brought to power people who h4te ethnic Russians.
The Ukrainian army launched an 4ttack on these regions in 2014, moving its entire 4rsenal against the civilians of Donbass, this topic is important since the w4r takes place in the lands of Donbass, therefore civilian v1ctims are always the civilians who live in the Donbass (usually the Western media always interviews Ukrainian civilians living in regions that do not suff3r the real consequences of these w4rs), the people of Donbass won practically all the b4ttles, there were a lot of material on youtube about these b4ttles, where they showed civilians f1ghting aga1nst the Ukrainian army, but youtube has cens0red almost everything. These victories should not really surprise us too much, since the people of Donbass were defend1ng their homes against people who h4te Russians (their ethn1city), any of us would fight with full force if you see that your family is thre4tened by crazy rac1sts that h4te your friends and family, today after all the 4ttacks they have received by Kiev, if they hold a new referendum it is very sure that they will vote to join Russia, they have already seen the true face of the Westerners and of those they control Kiev today.
It is interesting that the West always supports autonomies when they are initiated within en3my nations: H0ng K0ng in Ch1na, the K*rds in Syr1a, K0s0vo in Serb1a, Ch3chny4 in Russ1a and a long list.
It is true that Russ1a supports those Russ1ans who live in Donbass, in fact it has more right to do so than the illegal military presence of the Y4nkees in northern Syr1a (“support1ng” the K*rds and steal1ng Syrian oil along the way), the inhabitants from Donbass are ethn1c Russ1ans, they are in lands close to the Russ1an border (secur1ty issue), they have an obvious connection with Russ1an culture and above all they share many family members with Russ1ans, for this reason after 2014 many residents of Donbass have obtained a Russian p4ssport (Russian citizensh1p).
Possible w4r: If a w4r breaks out between Russ1a and Ukra1ne, it will be when K1ev attacks the Russ1ans living in D0nbass, because Russ1a has said for years that it will intervene with the Russian 4rmy to protect its citizens in any part of the world, including the D0nbass region, some believe that Russia will r0ot out the pr0blem, even reaching K1ev to cle4n up the g0vernment house that is under US c0ntrol. The US n4rrative about a possible Russian 1nvas1on of Ukra1ne is based on this last point, because the Y4nkees know very well that a provocation from K1ev is enough for Russ1a to 1ntervene and the Western med1a will have “pr0of” of the alleged 4ggress1on against the “peaceful” K1ev. The western n4rr4t1ve has always been based on l1es, they are heirs to the Br1t1sh emp1re, experts in this type of str4tegy: ly1ng, caus1ng d1vis1on and succeed1ng.
The objectives of the Un1ted States: Everything written above explains some symptoms, but not the real cause of the confl1ct and the main objective. As everyone knows, the United States became the hegemon1c world power when Europe was totally destroyed in the Sec0nd W0rld W4r, destruct1on that also extended in Asia, China was the second nation to suffer more hum4n l0sses after the Sov1et Un1on. Therefore today, in a world where Ch1na has managed to 0vertake the United States in terms of GDP-PPP, becoming the first und1sputed w0rld p0wer in economic terms, the United States has no other alternative than to resort to w4r in order to ret4ke the hegem0ny that has been l0sing, a new c0ld w4r is necessary to d3str0y Russia economically and gain full c0ntrol of Western Europe (in ec0nomic and p0litical terms), this will help to c0nfr0nt Ch1na (the Western med1a is already mention1ng Ch1na in this European confl1ct). You have doubts? Just look at what N$TO’s first secretary general, Lord Ismay, said, explaining NATO’s goal: “to keep the USA in, the Russ1ans out, and the Germ4ns d0wn.”
The US is the one who needs this w4r, that’s why the western med1a controlled by the western el1te push this w4r, the Ukrain1ans are just a che4p t0ol for the westerners.
Now we must write using numbers to avoid western c3ns0rsh1p, long live fr33 w3stern express1on haha.
Gary Beaton
7 hours ago
Excellent summary.
Just an edit that I would suggest is inclusion of the further information regarding initial Ukrainian army operations against citizens in the Donbas. The Ukrainian Army refused to fight its own citizens. Many soldiers switched allegiances and joined the militias. All of the weapons initially used in the conflict were sourced from the Ukrainian army (as per NATO intelligence).
To overcome the reluctance of the army to act against its own citizens the militant wings of neo-Nazi organizations were trained by NATO and incorporated into the Ukrainian Army where they could set an example to the professional military. This was a MSM theme until the US foreign policy evolved into a proxy war with Russia.
Bit of balance supplied: the other side of yanukovitch. doesn’t get us observers any closer to understanding the real ‘will of the people’ at the time of his ousting, though: ties with Russia or reject Russia and go Europe? Truth would be that both exist. Time has shown that the ‘europe’ side (at least at the top) is just as corrupt as Yanukovitch and is totalitarian and ruthless to boot and has served and is serving just to take Ukraine from one bad position to a worse, day after day.
Cheryl de Rue
6 hours ago
@Gary Beaton About Yanukovych the Ukrainian President that some Donbas residents objected to being ousted. He ran what was known as “The Family” in Ukraine and took corruption to a level never seen before in Ukraine, helped by Paul Manafort (the American linked to Trump) who made 60 million helping Yanukovych get into power. Yanukovych was twice convicted of theft before he came to power but using a notoriously corrupt judicial system prosecuted his closest rival, Yulia Tymoshenko, who was sent to jail for 7 years on charges that were widely believed to be arbitrary and unlawful. Yanukovych annexed land for his personal real estate projects from public parks, green belts and schools. He had an army of lawyers and a complex network of offshore companies, phony firms involved in price gouging of state-controlled entities and fictitious supply deals, and general embezzlement of state funds. He lived like royalty and had a Hunting Lodge that had a $75k membership fee and every luxury. There has never been such a corrupt President of Ukraine before or since. He didn’t want to join the EU because it would have involved him submitting to a level of transparency and accountability he couldn’t afford.
No one in the world, it seems, gives a damn about stopping the War in Ukraine.
For the most part they just want more. They want more war, bigger war, fiercer war, more destructive war, more complete, more endless war.
Zelensky swears they will fight to the last man, with shovels if that is all they have.
That would be comical rhetoric if he weren’t president of a nation currently destroying itself.
What is required is an immediate CEASE FIRE.
And that is what the whole world should be crying for, demanding, urging, suggesting, helping with.
CEASEFIRE.
But it never gets a mention.
And the biggest obstacle? Ukraine and its insane ‘leadership’ (which doesn’t merit the word) which brought them to this.
Apparently, to the best of my knowledge, they will not even contemplate talking at all until Russia accedes to their demands. Principal amongst which is the ‘return’ of Crimea.
A total block right there. Completely cynical and deliberate show stopper.
And Russia, what does Russia want before they will talk (I’m told) ? Honour the Minsk accords is it.
If anyone has more recent and better knowledge then please share it or at least a link to it.
My point is that all this should be front and centre at all times but it is not even in the margins.
Here’s what I believe now. The Russians say this and the Ukrainians say this:
==========================
DEMANDS (as of 29 march 2022)
Russia demands
Recognise the independence of Luhansk People’s Republic and Donetsk People’s Republics
Recognise Crimea as Russian territory
Demilitarize to only defensive weaponry and no offensive weaponry
Declare neutral status and not join any military alliances or blocs like NATO (constitutional change)
COMPROMISE
Allow Ukraine to join the European Union
De-escalation of military activities in some parts of Ukraine, particularly near Chernihiv and Kyiv.
Russia Point of View
“(The operation’s ultimate goal is) to protect the people who have been subjected for eight years to genocide by the Kiev regime.
(Moscow would) embark on a demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine, and handing over to justice those who committed numerous atrocities against civilians.
We do not have plans to occupy Ukrainian territories. We are not going to impose anything on anyone by force”
Vladimir Putin
President
Russia
23 February 2022
DEMANDS (as of 29 march 2022)
UKRAINE Demands
“NATO Article 5” type security guarantee – guarantors to include: Russia, United Kingdom, China, United States, Turkey, France, Canada, Italy, Poland and Israel.
Guarantors will go to war to protect Ukraine if it is invaded (as per what the security guarantee expected)
Territory to be guaranteed do not apply to Crimea and Donbass, however it do include parts of Luhansk and Donetsk’s oblast
No objection against joining European Union
15 years moratorium on the status of Crimea to negotiate Crimea’s future
Both sides to not use military force to resolve Crimea issue
COMPROMISE
Pledge not to join any military alliances
Pledge not to host foreign military bases or foreign troops
Military exercises will require approval from guarantors
Pledge not to seek/obtain weapon of mass destruction including nuclear weapons
=========== and that’s it.
No one should be making pre conditions to talking. No one.
But there is one precondition to talking: CEASEFIRE.
Simply Cease Fire. Everyone hold positions and ceasefire.
Stop killing. Stop destroying.
Let the Ukrainians reflect on what a terrible price they are paying and for what? To stop LPR and DPR being what they said they could be?
Let the Russians reflect on just how necessary it is for them to go this route to protect the LPR and DPR and get the hatred and continual provocation of Ukraine’s mad leadership off their backs.
